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Forum:Unfortunate that it had to come to this
Hello, Total Drama Wiki Council. I'd like to discuss a topic that's been prominent for a few weeks now. On May 4, 2013, we promoted longtime rollback TDA15 to a Chat moderator due to the complaints from new users that Chat was lacking authority. Since then, we have lost BatmanBaleLover as a Chat mod and only have two others left. I visit Chat frequently and have never seen TDA15 there unless I have asked him to visit prior. I've gotten Bigez to ask him, I've gotten Mygeto to ask him, and I've asked him myself on three different occassions to visit Chat. I told him as soon as he got his job that failure to patrol Chat would result in a demotion from Chat mod and rollback. This may seem unfair but the fact of the matter is that we gave him a job as a ROLLBACK to patrol Chat. No offense, but I haven't seen any of you guys in there, either, and it's kind of annoying that I constantly have users asking for new CMs who we know nothing about when we have perfectly good admins and rollbacks in the IRC with nothing to do. TDA15 has not taken his job as a Chat moderator seriously and I have literally told him three times. I'm sorry, but it is not fair that he is allowed to get away with this kind of behavior with no consequences. He has been warned multiple times in the past about his behavior, his attitude, and his laziness. He doesn't even edit that much. And as soon as we give him ONE SIMPLE JOB of just going into Chat, he takes it as a joke and then leaves after being warned. Oh, and then he doesn't improve his behavior at all. I just find it really annoying that we've given this kid so many chances and I think it's time to put our foot down and let him know that he's not going to be a rollback anymore if he doesn't make an effort. He's literally stopped trying, he's constantly disruptive and talks back, and the fact that we've had to warn him five times is enough. He KNEW that he would be demoted and he didn't take it seriously. I propose a demotion. Please let me know what you guys think. Honestly, this is nothing personal against TDA15. He gets on my nerves a lot with his sarcastic comments and "I think I can do anything I want" attitude but the amount of warnings we've given him is a little too much. I know he's been in charge for a while, but you and I both know that if FH was acting this way, or if Mikey was acting this way, they'd be long gone by now. Support #-- User:TDIFan13 #Though ordinarily it would just typical to demote him from Chat mod, we did specifically give him this job as a ROLLBACK, and I told him myself that he would be demoted from a rollback. I like TDA15, but if this was FH or Mike, like Ryan said, he wouldn't be given this many chances.--'Bigez620 - The man, ' 05:05, June 27, 2013 (UTC) #Literally, we should demote him for that kind of behavior. I mean he is a bit inactive in my opinion and the only times where he is active are when he's editing proposals or making an edit. (what I mean by that is that he like reverts one edit or makes one edit.) In fact like you just said, he doesn't edit much. I myself barely even see him on the wiki. So why is he still active on the staff list? Anyway, we gave him a lot of chances and he practically flouted them. I personally think he should be demoted from just CM, but because of his behavior and that admins have told him he wouldn't be rollback, then I guess both. So I fully support the demotion. 05:39, June 27, 2013 (UTC) Oppose Comments Wait, I'm confused. Did we ever make him a Chat Monitor? And is he currently a Chat Mod?--''' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 01:22, June 28, 2013 (UTC) .... YES, MYGETO. HE IS A CHAT MODERATOR. DID YOU NOT READ. -- 06:40, June 28, 2013 (UTC) So, we demoting him from Chat Mod or RB?--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 06:46, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Both. We gave him the job as a rollback; we were in short supply of chat mods. We only promoted him to chat mod because rollbacks can't patrol Chat, so the chat mod promotion, in this case, is irrelevant. He neglected to do his job and that's what we're talking about. -- 06:59, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Well, that seems unnecessary. If he's neglecting his duties as Chat Mod, then he shouldn't be one. It doesn't seem necessary to also remove his duties as a Rollback, because as you can see, he does a pretty good job at it. If we're low on Chat Mods, then we should promote some, or us admins should chip in.--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 07:05, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Okay, but no admins are pitching in. And we gave him the job because no one, at this point, is active enough in Chat to be promoted. As a rollback, he does a fairly decent job, but this proves that he really doesn't care about the state of the wiki. -- 07:11, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Though I agree with both of you, I've gotta side with Ryan on this one. Rollbacks can't patrol the chat, so we had to promote him. We still gave him the job as a rollback and told him that if he didn't care, he would be demoted as an RB. And as an RB he doesn't really do much and his attitude gets in the way a lot. He's not exactly the friendliest to new users. By the way, how many votes are needed to seal the deal?--'Bigez620 - Hu ' 07:15, June 28, 2013 (UTC) 3/5. Technically I guess it's already been done, I wanted everyone's opinion but CD's chosen to not vote so that makes it 3/4. Mygeto seems to oppose. So, do I just demote him? -- 07:28, June 28, 2013 (UTC) I still don't see the point of the correlation between him being an RB and a CM. If he's not moderating chat, then let's not make him a CM. If he edits often (which he actually does), then keep him as an RB. If we're in a dire need for CMs, then I'll gladly volunteer, and the other admins should have to too. This whole CM thing seems like a thin veil for another reason of why you guys want him demoted, and it seems clear that it's generally just his attitude. And if this vote's just between the admins, then you already have majority.--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 07:34, June 28, 2013 (UTC) I will admit, yes, I have a problem with his attitude, but he actually hasn't acted out in a while. It's just the fact that he doesn't care and I think it's wrong that he's been warned so many times. If I wanted to demote him because of his attitude, I'd demote him because of his attitude. He's been warned over seven times by me, you, and Bigez - I wouldn't go through all that trouble if I really didn't like him. I don't care much for him but what irks me is that we gave him this job as a rollback and we warned him that if he didn't help out, he would be demoted from rollback. He seems to not care or think that he's going to keep his position anyway. -- 07:40, June 28, 2013 (UTC) At the end of the day, the ''only thing that he does as a rollback is edit. His attitude is obviously a setback, but whenever he's in the IRC he's never really "there", he refuses to help out unless it's to gain edits, and if he is unwilling to help the admins out when they are in need of a CM because he's too busy playing Minecraft or Skyrim or whatever then I don't understand why he's a rollback. Anyone can edit, we may as well just promote Bale to a rollback. We need users that care about the state of the wiki and not just about their edit count. I get it, he's nice to you, he's a friend to a lot of us, but that shouldn't cloud our judgement right now. I'm not saying this as someone that dislikes his attitude (which I've had issues with in the past), I'm saying this as someone concerned that one of our rollbacks is not bothered enough to open up a separate Chat tab and occasionally check in. I'm in there every day, I don't see any admins or rollbacks in there. It's really hard for me to have to do all this work, that's why I asked him for help. -- 07:47, June 28, 2013 (UTC) You definitely can't say he doesn't care. He edits, particularly mainspace, everyday. And he consistently creates/reworks templates. That's more than a lot of people on the wiki can say. If he is neglecting one part of his job, the chat moderation, then remove that part. If he's doing well on the other part, being a rollback, then he should keep that job. It doesn't make sense any other way, and it seems more like a punishment hen something that is exceedingly needed.--''' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 07:53, June 28, 2013 (UTC) I fully believe he doesn't care. If we can list more reasons to why someone shouldn't be a rollback than why they should, I don't see how that makes them a good rollback. All you've listed is that he edits - that's the bare minimum. He does not rework templates, he made a bunch of new ones, which is nice, I suppose, but I didn't and still don't see the necessity in having navigation templates. That still falls into the category of "edits". Personally, I think you're a very non-bias guy but in this case I feel as if you're letting your guys' bond/friendship cloud your judgment. I definitely do not think he is suited to be a rollback. Besides editing, what else does he do? A rollback's only job is not editing. They should be friendly, approachable, willing to help out, and committed. I have seen none of these traits from TDA15. If he cared about his status as an RB, why wouldn't he visit Chat after being warned this many times? -- 07:59, June 28, 2013 (UTC) And isn't one of the sole purposes of a rollback to edit? He's not an admin, he definitely doesn't have as much responsibility taking care of this wiki than we do. What do we need help with, besides chat monitoring? There's not much a RB can or needs to do besides editing. It definitely doesn't make sense that if he has two jobs, why we shouldn't just remove the one he's neglecting. And I'm definitely not defending him because we're friends or whatever, I'm defending a person who's no doubt being treated too harshly here. I mean, if he's getting in so much trouble over not moderating chat, then why am I not? Or Bigez? Aren't we all chat monitors? If the chat not being moderated is such a huge issue that shows whether or not we care about the wiki, then we should all chip in. (Geez, stop responding so quickly, you keep conflicting my edits. >~>)--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 08:03, June 28, 2013 (UTC) And those are very bias and non-concrete requirements for an RB, but I can see the good in them. And I can agree with you, he can be a jerk. But so far, that really seems to look like the only legitimate reason why he should be demoted, and the only clear reason why you want him to be.--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 08:07, June 28, 2013 (UTC) I definitely agree, but I asked '''him'. I can fully assure you that if I had asked you or Bigez and you guys didn't help out, I'd be pissed. I will admit that I probably wouldn't be as quick to jump to the idea of demotion but this is taking his attitude, behavior, and work ethic into consideration. But yeah, if I warned you guys seven times and you still didn't, I would one hundred percent start a demotion forum. And I don't see how this is harsh. I have really tried to be easy on him but seven warnings? How can you ignore seven warnings? To me, it's him not caring. And you're totally right, one of the sole purposes of a rollback is editing, and he's gotten that part semi-fulfilled (though, with the exception of his most recent edits due to adding templates, most of his edits are reverting other people's poor revisions). He has two jobs. Two. We just remove one and leave him with the other one? Why should someone like that be in power? Does that really set a good example from the wiki? Just barely doing your job will keep you in power? I just want to point out that the last time he was warned, Bigez specifically told him that if he did neglected to visit Chat, he would most undoubtedly be demoted. He's obviously not taking this seriously since he has not visited Chat since. It's ridiculous to me and I don't see why we've given him so many chances. Here are my reasons to why he should be demoted: * Poor attitude * Lack of care for the wiki * Failure to take warnings seriously * Laziness (Also, now you gave me an edit conflict. Way to go, ****.) -- 08:11, June 28, 2013 (UTC) His attitude definitely needs improvement, and is reason enough for demotion. But those other reasons seem pretty thin. The reason behind tying the jobs of CM and RB doesn't make sense for a promotion, and equally doesn't make sense for a demotion. Like I said, this seems more like a punishment, or even a vendetta, than something that would inherently improve our wiki. If this was solely about his attitude, then I could see myself supporting, but there seems to be a lot more behind this. And also, we other admins should really should moderate chat, or promote some CMs, if this is really a big problem. It doesn't make sense that only you and TDA15 do so. (And fix your signature, ya buttmunch.)--''' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 08:31, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Then by all means, I would be happy to see you in Chat. Anyway, I gotta say I do get where you're coming from but these jobs were tied. We give rollbacks/CMs/Bale jobs all the time, and the fact that TDA15 not only neglected to complete his and also ignored all his warnings, combined with all the reasons I listed above, makes me feel like he isn't meant to be a Chat mod. This is less about this one occasion and more about his laziness as a whole; I think this one job in general, which I most certainly thought he would do, definitely pushed me over the edge. Like I said, I do value your opinion but I respectfully disagree. I'm going to bed in 30 minutes so I'd like to know your stance on this officially before the final decision. I'd rather finish this now than do it later when he's online and a bunch of users see and freak out over the drama. -- 08:36, June 28, 2013 (UTC) (Also, no, this signature looks fine, very modern. You know who would make a good Duncan? That Zach kid. And P.S: read my blog on the wiki.) -- 08:37, June 28, 2013 (UTC) If there's ever a time in which there's no mod, then I will gladly monitor/moderate/whatever. And I agree that he shouldn't be a Chat Mod, and that's why it's so strange that those two jobs are tied together like this, as they weren't really before. I feel he's done satisfactory as a RB, and he should keep that job. So yeah, I'mma do what CD's doing and abstain, because I'm conflicted as f***. But you didn't really need my vote in the first place, cuz you got majority. (And sweet dreams, princess. Mariaah would have been an amazing Heather.)--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 08:48, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Okay, well, I already demoted him like six years ago because you took a light year to respond. As usual I guess I'll be taking the blame for this. It's sad because even though he has an attitude and is a poor RB, I definitely don't dislike him as a person at all. #preparefortheshitstorm (oh d00d I'm sure) -- 'TDIFan13' I'M TIRED, SO I'M TYPING SLOW. And just blame it on Bigez. Or just don't respond. Ya know, yadda, yadda, d00d.--' Mygeto [[User talk:Mygeto|likes to STEAL]] ' 08:59, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Man, I am on the ball lately. " CD's doing and abstain''" :) ~ 09:48, June 28, 2013 (UTC) Then if we're in desperate need of chat mods... then we should do what Mygeto suggested. Adding on to that, I would like to make a suggestion of my own. Maybe we can start a shift system and take turns each week. There would be no time limit or anything, because the admins are on at different times of the day. The shift thing would work by each week an admin could patrol the chat, yes other admins are welcome to join them. But whoever's shift it is would be the main admin that has to be on chat. However, would that work out and would that be kinda hard to keep track of? Just an idea.... 18:03, June 28, 2013 (UTC)